we can establish a religion of our choosing, and practice a religion of our choosing. as a result of that separation, a judge and court cannot impose on you you have to go to any church at all irrespective of your faith. >> can the aclu step in? >> fwo problems. one, the issue of consent. the second is however a very technical issue, brooke. and that is standing. the person who sues has to be aggrieved, has to be affected, has to be damaged by the suit. and if the aclu is not in and you have itself aggrieved, then they have no standing legally to move forward. so they have to get this person's consent. but they might get it, brooke. here's why. enforcement. say for example he doesn't show up for a few weeks to church and all of a sudden it becomes a condition of a probation violation enforcing it's going to be problematic because the judge can't say you didn't go to church after all. and then it becomes a problem. he's going to say, aclu, i'm in trouble. can you help me? >> can i ask, how many years have you been in law? >> 16. >> have you ever heard of someone being s